King Reaper said:
Magnetism is already a fairly decent anti-zoning tool. If they're not magnetized, it's not too hard to sneak in a few charges and fire off a spark bolt (hit or block doesn't matter). Not to mention super jump forward + j.C can get him across the screen at an impressive speed for a character as big as he is.

No. You have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry.

Tager has no stable way of getting in. Period. He has no way of baiting options that shut down his methods of closing distance (well, vs any decent zoning character anyway). Grapplers need to rely on human error to get in... but he has no way of forcing human error. "Sneaking in charges" is punishable by most characters on reaction, do you like taking free damage? I sure do! Boy howdy. Between taking damage to actually get in, and having the largest hitbox in the game, Tager would actually have less effective health than most characters. His best method of baiting anti-air or zoning options? j2c. That's... it. Seriously. Magnetism doesn't matter if you can't get it in the first place. In the few matches he does get magnetism, it's versus characters that can't actually outzone him, or they made a huge mistake. He *needs* a method of getting in. Mind you, this method doesn't have to be *blows through every zoning option in the game*. It needs to be ways to bait the opponents mistakes and habits through something other than guess sledge on projectiles and risk your entire lifebar on an anti-air bait (which doesn't work vs anyone competent).

I mean like, I'm not expecting Tager to become top tier. That would honestly suck (seriously, Tager as S tier would probably be the stupidest thing ever). But if you've ever played as this garbage character for so long, you'd at least want maybe a few more potatoes in your piss-soup.

Things Tager ABSOLUTELY NEEDS FOR COMPETITIVE PLAY:
Stable method of closing distance versus any ZONING character, even if it's hard to use.
Better anti-up/back. Be this better low attacks or an option select or something.
A not horrible combo off gadget -> 5a. 2000 damage is a fine number here honestly, but for gods sake, if my safest option after working and taking risks leads to "opponent holds up back, doesn't give a flying -your mother is a classy lady-", there is something very wrong with your grappler. After knockdown, UP BACK SHOULD NOT BE AN OPTION UNLESS YOU KNOW THE THROW IS COMING. There are other things Tager has to deal with like anti-backdash, anti-reversal, baiting gold burst, and baiting mashing fast buttons that he also has to consider after Gadget beyond up-back. However, up-back beats everything he has, basically. The double gadget bug is sort of a good thing in this department, but it's still not good enough (in fact, it's good at doing certain things, but not the one thing Tager needs). This is really it. Keep it subtle, simple and stable. He doesn't need fancy gimmicks, he doesn't need more damage, he doesn't need to be S-tier. But at least give him tools to win and win with good reads and some level of safety, rather than playing slot machines and the risk reward not being in your favor.

grandabx said:
i've been doing alot of research and i see that tager REALLY needs a anti-zoning tool. something like a gravity lock that keeps an opponent in place for a few seconds. like when he has at least a half bar of volt meter charged up, he could do a move that auto-tracks an opponent(like an electric mat underneath their feet). if they don't jump away they get stuck in place for a few seconds. give the move invincibilty at the begining and alot of recovery if it "doesn't" connect. people couldn't go into auto pilot against tager and be more creative fighting him. it would also get him variety with his charge meter.

Magnetism is already a fairly decent anti-zoning tool. If they're not magnetized, it's not too hard to sneak in a few charges and fire off a spark bolt (hit or block doesn't matter). Not to mention super jump forward + j.C can get him across the screen at an impressive speed for a character as big as he is.

Mu
1. the auto laser from her steins should still come out even if she blocks a move. as it is right now it's too easy to get out of her pressure. The laser hit could also use a little more block stun.

2. her j.B needs a bigger hit box.

3. she needs the ability to do wrath of the heavens in the air.

hakumen
earthbind(anti-projectile) doesn't really do much to deter opponents from using projectiles(except hazama). i think something like this would help:
whenever an opponent throws a projectile that hakumen cuts an earthbind will form(up to 3 orbs onscreen are possible). if it is left untouched by another projectile it will dissapear as normal. if it is touched by another of the opponent's projectiles, it will reset it's duration time on the screen and go up a level(up to level 4). it would remain the same size, but in the middle of the orb you'd see a japanese number in kanji for each level. also, each level would make the orb a different color. here's how they would go.

level 0 - color black(ordinary). normal BBCS properties

level 1 - color yellow(gravity). when orb duration ends it explodes into pieces in all directions. if opponent is hit(unguarded)opponent loses the ability to jump for 6 game seconds.

level 2 - color green(amnesia). when orb duration ends it explodes into pieces in all directions. if opponent is hit(unguarded) opponent loses ability to use special, drive and distortion attacks for 8 game seconds.

level 3 - color purple(mystified).when orb duration ends it explodes into pieces in all directions. if opponent is hit(unguarded) opponents directional controls(up,down,left and right)are reversed for 10 game seconds.

level 4 - color white(suspension). when orb duration ends it explodes into pieces in all directions. if opponent is hit(this level is unblockable)opponent's overall movement is 20% slower for 12 game seconds.

earthbind explosion takes off one guard primer. blast radius is twice the size of earthbind orb.

this would really slow down the projectile use. the current one doesn't do much.

Glad Tager is getting buffed. Thank god Rachel is getting some shenanigans back. No wallbounce for Bang will hurt but it seems like most everything else is intact for him so I think he'll be ok. Imo Litchi didn't get hit hard enough.

lightl said:
rebalance well some info on upcoming rebalance

Tager:
-6A starts up faster
-6A can be charged
-6A has super armor(!)
-6A can't be JC'd? Will test later.

I'm okay with this...

Colored_void said:
His B+down kick needs to be a little faster. For a low weak kick it sure does take a few frames to get out there.

His 2B lifts downed opponents when it connects. Use it to go into 5C setups. Also I've been meaning to get back sooner and I don't personally play Hazama but my friend mains him. You can play him online, he goes by the name of Jeyu though he's really opposed to lag. Also, have you been looking up info up on Dustloop? Its a great site to get down combos and strategies.

Tojo said:
Playing games like guilty gear, street fighter, dead or alive, blazblue and melty blood, ive noticed quite a few things in BB CT that seem broken or just ''unfair'' especially in high level play.

Ragna - his damage output is insane, and thanks to his new move Belial Edge, his combo's are now even more deadly and longer. His play style is aggressive but too agressive if you ask me. One of his attacks, Gauntlet Hades, hits very fast for an overhead move while other characters have a somewhat slower overhead move. What makes me even more upset is that ive had 3 people choose ragna after i was beating them with litchi for a few matches then they win and leave my room. Then A.) or B.) follows after, A.) bragging how i got owned with ragna or B.) just hate mail. Despite having Low Health, in my opinion that sometimes doesnt make things right. ^_^;

Lambda (V-13) - Tons of people were overjoyed when they heard she was taken out, but then deeply saddened when in reality, she was actually replaced by Lambda who is basically V-13. From my experience in fighting games, I have never seen such a broken char in both BB CT and BB CS, projectiles as default attacks? The stereotypical idea is just to block,she has low health and learn her projectiles patterns but thats just not enough. In fact, i just got out of a room where a lambda kept constantly playing ''run away'' or ''keep away'' and that kind of playing style being allowed in a fighting game where most characters lack a projectile, speed, or needs to get close to do combo's just doesnt seem to be fair in my opinion.

Tsubaki & Hazama (maybe makoto, dont have her yet) - these characters combo's are extremely easy to do and damaging, not to mention they mostly consist of just B and C button presses with little A and D. I play as Litchi and we all know she was one of the most complex characters in BB CT and her combos were damaging and complex to do. But to be honest, i have to bust my butt pulling off litchi's combos while characters like these have no trouble pulling off a combo.^_^;

Tager - many people say hes not overpowered or broken and many people say he is, so its hard to determine who's right and who's wrong but ill put in my views. In BB CT i used to be able to throw escape some of his grabs but it seems now in BB CS his throws are un-escapable, seems no matter how hard i try, i cant throw escape his grabs anymore. Obviously i cant blame the game, it does have stricter time intervals now and i just need to get used to that. However, one thing has been bugging me since BB CT, i never understood how his backdash has invincibility frames. I just cant see how an attack can miss such a wide,tall and slow person like Tager. That's my only gripe with him.

Rachel - i dont play this char but i heard she was good in BB CT but got shafted in BB CT. Just wanted to know why was her 22+C replaced with 214+C to activate her lightning rods? :o

*huff huff, pant* i deeply apologize if i was ranting but i needed to get some things off my chest. :3

I agree with you on Tsubaki but I disagree about Hazama. With his Drive combo's are hard to pull especially his His D,D,B,+Drive into B. Maybe I'm playing him really bad Which I don't think I am but his combo damage isn't a lot. His Distortion move's are really good but his move when he does that kick(Can't remember the name) should do a pinch more damage.

Griefy said:
Hazama's 3C is godly, it setups up into just about anything and he has tons combo potential. Even though his damage may seem low, his combos can really push bar in terms of damage. Also his Snake Coil is very useful and allows him to close distance really quick. He also has quite a few cross-ups that lead back into those combos. One strategy I usually see is using true oki combos which force your opponent to recover on the ground in some form then capitalize.

I played ct and I'm enjoying cs, but I'm not in touch with all of the abbreviations so what does 3c mean. On another note maybe I just need to practice with Hazama a little more. Griefy can you pm me and give me some pointers on Hazama.