resolved
bVork
Member
The North American version of Deathsmiles has far, far, far less slowdown (in all modes) than the Japanese version. We're talking about a whole minute of difference in the time that it takes to complete a stage in each version. The Japanese version was nearly arcade-perfect in terms of its slowdown, so this is a definite flaw.
Is Aksys aware of this issue, and are you going to fix it?
bVork said:
The North American version of Deathsmiles has far, far, far less slowdown (in all modes) than the Japanese version. We're talking about a whole minute of difference in the time that it takes to complete a stage in each version. The Japanese version was nearly arcade-perfect in terms of its slowdown, so this is a definite flaw.Is Aksys aware of this issue, and are you going to fix it?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Cave was still responsible for the coding of the NA version (At least that's what the dev blog implies), Aksys was strictly the translation.
That aside I'd still love to know what the hell happened. That slow down is important for playability and without it being there the ridiculous amount of suicide bullets are incredibly hard to deal with.
I'm not sure what the reason is for this, but all of the programming for our release of Deathsmiles was done by Cave, and so far as I know this wasn't some we asked for, nor were informed of.
As for a possible fix, I really can't say. I've talked the appropriate people, but there's no word at this time.
I'm just thankful the game came stateside. Odds are if you're going for high scores you already own the JP version or PCB. I think most people will be glad to just play the game.
Daigoro
Member
Belisarius said:
I'm not sure what the reason is for this, but all of the programming for our release of Deathsmiles was done by Cave, and so far as I know this wasn't some we asked for, nor were informed of.As for a possible fix, I really can't say. I've talked the appropriate people, but there's no word at this time.
we would certainly appreciate you pursuing the matter further.
it just doesnt make any sense that the gameplay should be changed between the JP and US versions of the game. hopefully it is something that can be patched.
thanks.
bucklemyshoe said:
I'm just thankful the game came stateside. Odds are if you're going for high scores you already own the JP version or PCB. I think most people will be glad to just play the game.
i didnt buy the JP version because i dont have a JP console. games like this were made for high scores. if the games were the same between regions (which they should be, no reason to alter the gameplay really), then the community would still be able to compare scores.
as it is now we cant.
the lack of slowdown also makes the game harder when trying to do more advanced strategies and taking more risks for better reward. it's unfortunate.
All right, I have a response from Cave. Pardon the literal translation:
Cave wanted to fix some unintended slowdown in the original, which compromised the level of difficulty in those sections. They upgraded the production environment of the graphics engine, so the U.S. version handles the graphic assets better. They're now working as originally intended, so things will be more difficult.
Hope that makes sense.
bVork
Member
Interesting. It's nice to see them taking an interest in improving their game, but this still means that scores are not directly comparable between versions. Unless, of course, Cave rolls out a title update for the Japanese version. Which would be hilarious.
Thanks for the response, and let me assure you that this does not make me regret buying Deathsmiles at all.
Daigoro said:
well thats a not entirely satisfactory answer.thanks for checking in with them though.
I have to agree as well. Cave may prefer it that way, but it's not what the fans (who in this genre are the only people buying the game) want. If this is an expectation of things to come from cave I think i'll stick to importing from Japan.
fuchikoma
Member
I just played it for the first time and it was pretty fun, but if this is true, then the English version is essentially crippled since someone with equal skill will never do as well playing this as they will in the real game. That's pretty surprising for a game in this genre.
Wait... at the risk of being the sole dissenter... you guys are UPSET because CAVE increased performance of their engine and eliminated slowdown lol... now that's rich.
I mean i kinda understand the need to compete directly with the JP's on equal footing... but if it's really that big a deal import it otherwise you come off like a bunch of entitled spoiled brats. You should be thanking Cave that they took the time to improve this version... talk about a lack of appreciation.
60Hertz said:
Wait... at the risk of being the sole dissenter... you guys are UPSET because CAVE increased performance of their engine and eliminated slowdown lol... now that's rich.I mean i kinda understand the need to compete directly with the JP's on equal footing... but if it's really that big a deal import it otherwise you come off like a bunch of entitled spoiled brats. You should be thanking Cave that they took the time to improve this version... talk about a lack of appreciation.
In most games slowdown is a bad thing, yes, but in Danmaku style shmups it can be an essential part of gameplay. Without the slowdown many bullet patterns can become insanely hard or impossible to navigate turning a fun experience into a frustrating one. I for one am having a -your mother is a classy lady- of a time dealing with the suicide bullets in this version because the slowdown isn't there. It also throws off scoring strategies that many players have spent years trying to master. You may call it an improvement, but for many of us it's a detrimental change.
This really is an improvement in the sense of George Lucas. Cave is free to screw around with mechanics all they want, but arcade mode should have been preserved at a minimum. Plus if this is really what they wanted why didn't they already the JP 360 release?
As for lack of appreciation, I appreciate that Cave has allowed Aksys to port the title, i just wish they had been more respectful to the source and to their fans. Hell most of the people who are complaining about this have already imported the JP version. We just want to see NA gamers treated to the same experience.
60Hertz said:
Wait... at the risk of being the sole dissenter... you guys are UPSET because CAVE increased performance of their engine and eliminated slowdown lol... now that's rich.I mean i kinda understand the need to compete directly with the JP's on equal footing... but if it's really that big a deal import it otherwise you come off like a bunch of entitled spoiled brats. You should be thanking Cave that they took the time to improve this version... talk about a lack of appreciation.
You need to understand the mechanics of slowdown in shmups. It is an essential part of game play. Slowdown is not bad. Well, proper slowdown is not bad, it is part of the game.
Oh and kudos to the George Lucas analogy. Han shot first!
EisenFaust
Member
That makes this game 100% impossible to complete. In DeathSmiles, no one can complete the game. No true ending. Nothing. The enemies uses shotguns and it cannot be avoided. Bombs are not in the US version. Continues are not in the US version. No achievements are in the US version. All of it above is 100% true. Nobody. Nobody can complete this game in the US. This game is a massive failure all thanks to Aksys Games. They slaughtered a chance at bullet-hell game gone wrong.
100% of all US players has 0 of 0 achievements.
100% of all US players cannot complete the game without continue.
100% of all US players returned this game.
100% of all US players regards this game as the worst games ever.
100% of all US players loathes CAVE for their incompetent development style gone wrong.
CAVE is the perpetrator and DeathSmiles should be banned from the US. Nobody should ever play DeathSmiles again. No Ketsui, no Mushihimesama, no Espgalada, these games will never see a US release due to CAVE's illegal development of making a shooter that you cannot complete due to the enemies' shotguns.
lol@ EisenFaust - that's classic.
I agree they should've released the accurate version, but if they themselves thought that the slowdown was UNINTENDED then this is the most ACCURATE version in respect to their original vision.
Thanks for the lesson in danmaku's but i didn't need one, i've been loving these games since the saturn came out - and believe you me i love slowdown as much as the rest of us because i happen to suck at these games, but i just can't shake the feeling of snobbish entitlement from most of these posts.
The fact that CAVE spent their precious time to improve their graphic engine should not be taken lightly, if you know anything about professional game development, everytime you change something it's got to go back through the WHOLE Q&A process. A code change is NEVER taken lightly and I really don't believe they had any MALICIOUS intent when they did this.
SO i guess i'm at odds with the attitudes but i understand the sentiment.
60Hertz said:
lol@ EisenFaust - that's classic.I agree they should've released the accurate version, but if they themselves thought that the slowdown was UNINTENDED then this is the most ACCURATE version in respect to their original vision.
Thanks for the lesson in danmaku's but i didn't need one, i've been loving these games since the saturn came out - and believe you me i love slowdown as much as the rest of us because i happen to suck at these games, but i just can't shake the feeling of snobbish entitlement from most of these posts.
The fact that CAVE spent their precious time to improve their graphic engine should not be taken lightly, if you know anything about professional game development, everytime you change something it's got to go back through the WHOLE Q&A process. A code change is NEVER taken lightly and I really don't believe they had any MALICIOUS intent when they did this.
SO i guess i'm at odds with the attitudes but i understand the sentiment.
And now that i have a better idea where you're coming from and I don't want it to appear that my motivations are merely because I feel entitled to an arcade accurate version. Quite frankly when I first played the JP 360 port my comment to Meancode was that there was almost too much slowdown, almost to the point of being uncomfortable. So honestly, I don't mind some adjustments. The problem I have is that Cave have gone too far and essentially jumped from one extreme to the other. Now the game doesn't have enough slowdown making the navigation of both the suicide bullets (especially on Lvl 999) and patterns like the Forest bosses apple attack, nearly impossible to survive. It just makes playing the game feel tedious and not fun. I pretty much now only play on Lvl 2 with the occasional jump to lvl 3.
In addition I do believe that they should have let arcade mode alone because honestly that's why it's there. X360 modes are created so the developer can do what they want with the console, but arcade mode implies a proper arcade port. Otherwise the only difference is resolution. I realize that Cave must have invested time and money into making this change, but given the extreme accuracy of the JP version I question the legitimacy of their claim that this is the version they always wanted. Maybe it's just pessimistic of me, but given the company's history I'm far more inclined to trust my instincts and believe that the real reason is because slowdown doesn't sell to Americans.
I agree on the arcade mode for sure - but i don't think the reason for them to do it was because slow down doesn't sell to americans, hell SHMUPS don't sell to americans, or at least they are not supposed to - and they just don't seem like a company that would bend over backwards for the west.
Anyway i see the sales of Deathsmiles in the west affirming that a damn good game can sell even if it's "old-school". I'm also excited that Cave is now looking at the west as a viable market - maybe i'm just worried that all this negative feedback will mess with their new direction but i'm sure in Japan there's even more anal fans... i guess we'll have to see.
RedEagleEX
Member
You guys are the reason we fail as a country to beat players in asian countries such as South Korea and Star Craft II. (http://kotaku.com/5580080/korean-gamers-are-faster-than-a-speeding-bullet)
"Boo-Hoo!! Game is too hard against them!! Impossible!! Blah blah!!"
Toughen up!! Quit complaining and get better. I want US game players to be as bad-ass as other countries so that other countries look at us and say..."Man...I want to be like them!"
Another Game Example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds5Zt-NNtFE&feature=related <--What it looks like...
Now going to another country...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuISPYfan1c <-- Now what? XD (Notice how one comment says "hahahaha wow impossible? XD " even though they just saw it?)
Seriously people. Just get over it and get better. Saying its "impossible" and then watching others do what you said is impossible just becomes an excuse.
I'm not saying any of you guys are horrible players, far from it.
But its pains me as a fellow gamer of these types of games (and all games at that matter) to hear complaints and not bother to improve your own skills and just blame the game itself for not beating it the way you want it.
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