Yukito
Member
Visual Novels go over more with anime fans than casuals. Sure, they are more aimed to girls, but think more "anime fan girl". The DS would be more popular, however, I would atleast like to see Hakuouki for the PS3 hit the states and give it a chance, even if only on PSN.
Vlad
Member
I just answered the survey... and...
"Thank you for taking our survey!"
"You're so pretty. We like watching you sleep."
I got a huge laugh out of this... And then a creepy feeling, HAHAH!
Who's responsible for this? :P
^I don't know who either, but I hope they don't go blind from my silk and shiny boxers ;)
I think what we can gather from this is that there is still a bit to learn about the genre and even an already potentially existing base(s). Hopefully, and Aksys was a bounce to the ounce on this, the second survey will reveal a bit more in both what Aksys is looking for and what the audience wants.
Just to share a personal insight of myself on these surveys: I not the direct audience they may be seeking (being a bro and all), but I find these games absolutely fascinating and entertaining. If/when they do release an otome game I'll get it! That automatically puts in the minority, but I think we're both getting what we want from this and if they fallow through I know people that will dig this and I'll pass it along.
I'm down for most platforms with the exception of the PS3 as I don't own on yet, but we may not see them release any of these games for a while and I'll likely have the system by then. I guess PSN and Live seem most likely, but don't me sway you :P. I know I'm a wild card here...
veregna brought up a valid point, yeah, in Japan PS2 games have had a pretty solid and consistent releases of otome and similar games for the longest time. I'd say till recently, in the past half year even, I would be amazed how many PS2 games (ports or what have you) were getting released with bundles and such at retail.
Just take a look here, and tell me you don't see a common thread in here:
http://www.play-asia.com/paOS-14-71-43-77-1-49-en.html
I don't see that many releases now, though. It all seems to be moving towards the PSP and Xbox 360 now.
So, I don't know about having releases for the PS2 now anymore. Sure, it has a library that would make all the other current systems look like a dingleberry, but after hearing about NISA coming out and saying that Sakura Wars didn't meet expectations it sounds like a risk for something for Aksys to go that route. I mean, I'd be down for it, but I don't want them to go under or in the red, you know? (sure, NISA took two years on it, but wouldn't you think a series like Sakura Wars would sell decently on either the PS2 or Wii?).
I don't know, you tell me.
servantavenger
Member
I think Sakura Wars failed because it failed to appeal to both it's target audiences. Sakura Wars isn't that good. As a Visual Novel, it's story is cliche, lame, and tame. As a SRPG, it's very basic and bare-bones. So both those fan-bases looked at it and decided they had better things to buy with their money.
Now, otome games might sell a little bit better than Sakura Wars did, but I think what they really should go into is just Visual Novels in general. Get ontop of some of the current releases (Umineko no Naku Koro ni's new PS3 version is causing a big splash) and some of the established fan favorites (you can't go wrong with a Type-Moon or Key game). That is what the fans of Visual Novels want to see come over here. That, and Visual Novels based in anime they like. I see a lot of people still asking for the Toradora or Code Geass Visual Novels.
I'll be buying the otome games if Aksys releases them, but I'll really only be doing it in hopes that supporting them will cause Aksys to want to release other types of Visual Novels as well.
Savvy
Member
The problem with a PS2 release is that Sony removed the backwards compatibility from later PS3s. I almost sold my PS2 before I found this out, but I wouldn't be surprised if others did and are now stuck with a huge library of games they can't play.
Yukito said:
Visual Novels go over more with anime fans than casuals.
Well, yeah, it's a niche genre that not that many people even know about. But casual gamers on average tend to gravitate towards the non-violent, lighter fare. And though there are still plenty of people that have a borderline xenophobic reaction to the anime look, visual novels share a lot of gameplay styles with the adventure games that appeal to the wider audience. Nintendo even released Hotel Dusk as part of the Touch!Generations line of games, though I suspect a black and white game wouldn't do too well.
Visual novels have the potential to appeal to a wider audience, but not if they never get released in America. You have to start somewhere, and the "never take any risks" attitude so many publishers have is the reason Nintendo is rolling in the dough and Sony and Microsoft are copying their motion control market strategy to catch up.
Yukito
Member
Yeah, true. Well, to start, I think 428 might be a great starter to localize, if they do anything. This being, that it is not an anime-styled novel game, and that it is more like a movie, that it expands various platforms, and it could be played off like it is similar to Heavy Rain, (When it isn't exactly), goes for all genders, and scored some high ratings overseas. It would also go to show to people, that visual novels =/= "dating" sims.
I am fine with anything coming over, just, this is one I think might be a good starter.
Shel
Member
For dating games in general, I have always wanting to play one (I DO own Sakura Wars, but have not yet played it). With mentioning Key, I was curious on how a game, made into an anime would work. To be honest, I would probably more like it as a game. I'm not sure why, but concerning Key, I loved watching AIR, but was not a fan of Kannon/Clannad. Ok, so I'm not a big slice of life fan, but being a game I WOULD have picked it up, being a collector of JRPGs, even if it is a different form of RPG.
Yukito
Member
^ Air was fantastic. I would love nothing more, than an Air PS3 game localized. That would be a dream come true. Sucks the Air localization is so jumbled, that it still hasn't got a full patch yet for the PC version. http://enterthewired.org/....these guys picked up the localization, pushed it from 39 to 53 back in March, and nothing has been said since. Always glad to see an Air fan. I myself, loved Kanon as well, and Clannad only in after story. (Hated the first season)..... but Visual Novels are easily the best to get the full story.
If you don't mind adult versions, they made a game called "ONE ~Kagayaku kisetsu e" before Key was known as Key. It has also been localized as well, and was one of the best romance stories I have ever seen. I highly recommend it to you, if you like romance, don't mind the adult parts (Only three or so a character at only the game's end) and don't mind that it is a `98 game. :) Key at their greatest. (Until an Air patch comes. =/)
@Belisarius: Aww, it's okay. Thanks for the explanation, though! It was very much just a "what is going on!! :(" moment for me. (Was that you on Twitter, too?)
@Savvy: Yeah, I'm pretty much the same. I only bought my Wii for games that arguably could have been for other systems (Fragile, Tales of Graces - which is on another system now, anyway); I spend most of my gaming time with PS2 games. I play mostly otome or RPG games, which are in abundance on the PS2. The only time I use my DS or PSP for gaming is when I'm about to go to bed, too, although my DS is spending more time being a dictionary than anything.
Note about the 'never take any risks' thing, though - Nintendo is doing very well as far as sales are concerned, but they're renowned (notorious?) for being very conservative re: business practices. Devs hate Nintendo, especially smaller companies who don't have the cash to easily bend to Nintendo's demands.
Here's an interesting discussion in response to some compaints the head of Alchemist (Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien) made about Nintendo: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=408920
So really, a publisher is always taking a risk when they choose to release on a Nintendo console/handheld, since they always have to pay the entire cost of production upfront. Nintendo never loses, even if loads of -your mother is a classy lady- games that never sell get released for the Wii/DS.
@Shel: You'd be surprised! I wasn't able to find any data that divided console ownership/usage by both gender and genre, but something I found interesting:
(Source: http://www.gamenews.ne.jp/archives/2008/03/post_3256.html )
This is a graph of how many hours people spend playing on a particular console in a week (in Japan). It's a gender-neutral study (that is, 50% of the respondents are male and 50% female) with respondents in the 15~59 age range.
So, coupled with the knowledge that Nintendo's doing extremely well, it's very much a case of people owning Wiis/DSes, but no one actually using them. Most people do their heavy gaming on PS3s or 360s.
Of course, whether people are playing on them doesn't matter to a developer or publisher: it's whether they can sell their games to these people or not.
Anyway, as for the debate on which type of game to publish, here are some interesting polls I found on a Japanese community website dedicated to doujin VN games:
Favourite Genre? (Girls Only)
Otome Game: 316 (40.8%)
Boys Love (BL): 252 (32.5%)
General Audiences: 96 (12.4%)
Male Audience Games: 111 (14.3%)
Total votes: 775
(Source: http://s-girl.info/vote/game4.html )
For this poll, I believe games like Fate/stay night or Kanon would fall under the 'Male Audience Games' category. Even if it's not straight 'dating', in the end part of the appeal is being able to choose which girl you want to sleep with.
A general audience game is a game where the point is just to read a story, I'd imagine. (Don't know for sure because I wouldn't be playing it, haha.)
Do you play female audience games (otome, BL)? (Boys Only)
Yes: 523 (58%)
No, but I'm interested in them: 94 (10.4%)
Not interested: 284 (31.5%)
Total votes: 901
(Source: http://s-girl.info/vote/game19.html )
Do you play male audience games (eroge, galge)? (Girls Only)
Yes: 2180 (84.9%)
No, but I'm interested in them: 243 (9.5%)
Not interested: 146 (5.7%)
Total votes: 2569
(Source: http://s-girl.info/vote/game20.html )
I'm not entirely sold on this poll, since the number of respondents is way higher than in the other polls and that's just weird.
Also, I think it's important to remember that these polls were asking Japanese audiences, who are already familiar with the genres and have a strong fanbase for VNs to begin with. It's hard to apply these numbers to a North American situation, since societal norms and attitudes toward gender roles, gaming, etc. are different.
BUT back to otoge - frankly, I think the best system to publish an otoge for in NA would probably be the PSP, simply because the value in an otoge is in the artwork and the voice acting. Especially the voice acting. You can't get either of those in any amount of quality with the DS, which is why so many ports of PS2 otome games are ending up on the PSP.
PS2 games would be nice, but the remaining lifespan for the PS2 is getting close to nil, I'd imagine.
Aside: when I did Aksys' OTOGE PT2 POLL, I wrote "ANYTHING" for the "what kind of stuff would you want in an LE" question - this has now proven to be a lie.
Don't do what Bandai Namco just did with their LE Tales of Graces. :( Even if there's a smidgen of BL in there, I don't think my otome heart can handle paying 5000 extra yen for a pile of stationery.
^ No, actually, they hate it too. :D;; 2ch is FUMING over it. A lot of the comments are really sarcastic, like MAN THIS IS SO CHEAP THIS IS WAY TOO CHEAP THIS IS SUCH A GODLY LE SET I'M GONNA BUY TWO OF THEM, etc.
Savvy
Member
I won't go into Nintendo's 3rd party practices. There's a huge conversation there and I'd rather talk about otome games. The point I was making is that the landscape of gaming has changed dramatically in the last five years because of them.
That poll data is similar to the status of movie audiences. Guy stuff (action films) are generally watched by everybody, whereas girl stuff (chick flicks) are mostly watched only by women. So why not forget otome games and just focus on visual novels as so many guys here are suggesting? Because girls are a huge under-served market.
Developers and publishers are all fighting over the same pool of guys to get their money, when a gamer can only spend so much. But gals have money that nobody's really trying that hard to get, and they're willing to spend. Just Dance was one of the top sellers last year, and that was because of young women. The point isn't that otome games are visual novels. The point is that they're games for girls, with a little bit more substance than what's currently available in the "boys club" of American gaming.
I'll admit that I'm a little biased against the PSP, as it's the only system this gen that I don't currently own. But I will say that the DS is in a lot more people's hands than the PSP in America, and girly games have already proven to be million sellers on the DS, as Ubisoft learned. I may buy a PSP to support an otome game if it comes to that, but how many others will?
I really can't comment on Ubisoft or DS games, since I rarely spend my money on either, but part of that is because I have the leisure of playing games in Japanese.
I can say with almost absolute certainty that I wouldn't bother with an otome game on the DS, because what I want out of an otome game is the voice actors, first and foremost. There's a much greater chance of my buying an otoge if I recognise a few voice actors that I like, although I do make exceptions for games with interesting-looking plots and/or good artwork. There's a huge difference between reading a guy confessing his love to you and actually hearing it.
re: the data; I would interpret it as reading "girls will play both male-audience VNs and otome games, but if given the choice, they are more likely to play an otome game over other VN genres". But it's important to remember that's IF they're given the choice. Because the NA market lacks VNs in the first place, whether it's a general VN or an otoge, women will probably buy it anyway simply because there is no alternate choice.
That being said, I still recommend otome games over general VNs because general VNs tend to be boring. I don't think most people realise it, simply because there hasn't been a lot of exposure to it, but 99% of visual novels are linear, straight clicking games. Sometimes you get an option to make a choice in action or response to direct the plot, but that's all. VNs aren't Phoenix Wright, Hotel Dusk, Another Code, etc. which are all games I always hear being brought up in VN discussions - these are more puzzle games, or adventure games in the traditional sense (think Sierra's King's Quest series). The closest to VN game I can think of that's been released in NA is Time Hollow, which I've heard people complaining about because it was "too linear". Talk about disliking something for what it is! Visual novels are literally visual novels - like reading a book, except there are pictures and (sometimes) voices to go with it.
Otome games tend to have something on the side you can work with; the most popular otome game series I can think of - Koei's Angelique and Harukanaru Toki no Naka de series - are actually management simulation and RPG, respectively. The main point of the game is still to get a (male) character-specific ending, though, which is why they're otome games.
However, as we've seen with the comments earlier regarding Sakura Wars, people didn't enjoy either aspect, because they were both lukewarm. But Sakura Wars is also directed toward male gamers, who're used to being marketed to with 'better' simulation/battle systems or whatnot anyway. I can't really say how an otome game would fare here, but given the point about how women are an uncatered market, I'd guess they'd do well enough. I don't know much about business or marketing, though.
Savvy
Member
Personally I loved Time Hollow.
But about the voice acting thing... The culture surrounding it is entirely different in America than how it is in Japan. Very few people actually know about whose doing the voices in games over here, and someone buying a game because of a voice actor is rare. Putting priority on voices over art and story would be nearly unthinkable for a western developer, and really only the huge franchises like Fallout can get recognizable names. All that really matters is whether they did a good job. Ask any lady fan of Knights of the Old Republic about Carth, and most won't be able to tell you who the voice actor was. But damn if they don't swoon at the sound of his voice.
masuto
Member
Hawk_hotlips said:
I personally think that going into visual novels in general, not just Otome games, would be pretty nice. Starting with a PS2 game, while seemingly risky, might start out the best, maybe. Providing they can market enough and word of mouth is working.
Aksys is doing just that. Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors is their latest visual novel that's coming out on November 16.
IxIoN
Funyarinpa
Hawk_hotlips
Member
masuto said:
Aksys is doing just that. Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors is their latest visual novel that's coming out on November 16.
Oh, I knew that. I should have been more clear, I apologize. I was talking more about console VNs though. VNs on the DS have been more or less established already. What, with Ace Attorney and Professor Layton. Not as much on a console, though the Wiiware ports of the original Ace Attorneys are certainly encouraging.
iwasabunny
Member
Hawk_hotlips said:
I personally think that going into visual novels in general, not just Otome games, would be pretty nice. Starting with a PS2 game, while seemingly risky, might start out the best, maybe. Providing they can market enough and word of mouth is working.
or starting with Umineko's PS3 version. haha
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